If both sides keep some problems alive, people keep turning out on that.

Oh yeah, I can get you angry about this issue forever. But then if we have a compromise,

an immigration could be like, you know, the perfect issue about this. People have been looking

and agreeing on many aspects of immigration reform for years. But right now, if they don't do

anything, it ends up empowering you in terms of voting energy and financially because your

base is very, very ginned up about it. And so you almost don't want it to go away. Like, if you

solve the problem, then what are you going to do to whip people up? Exactly. And so what's interesting

is about a decade ago, surveys showed that Democrats and Republicans had roughly similar views

about the value that they believed immigrants brought to the country. And now 10 years later,

because of this successful weaponization of the issue, the views are wildly divergent, which now

leaves this as something no one wants to solve. And they'll keep raising money on it and turning out

people on it. And there's something wrong with an industry that has more money flowing into it,

the more they don't solve the problems.

It is my pleasure to welcome to Yang Speaks, the founder of the Institute for Political Innovation,

former CEO of a multi-million dollar business. And now, political reformer, an author of a

tremendous book called the Politics Industry, Catherine Gail. Welcome, Catherine.

I am so happy to be here, Andrew. Thanks for having me.

Well, I'd learned so much from your book that you co-authored with Michael Porter, who's one of the

grand fathers, I guess maybe godfathers, he doesn't want to sound old.

What do I think the godfathers of management consulting and business wisdom? And the way you both

approached what's going wrong with our political system was to me so spot on. But I want to start

way, way earlier, which is how the heck did you come to this sort of work? You know, I looked at your

...