Why Your Brain Craves Revenge and How to Break Free

Getting Curious with Jonathan Van Ness

Sony Music

Science, Self-improvement, Comedy, Education, Society & Culture

4.9 • 21.5K Ratings

🗓️ 21 May 2025

⏱️ 50 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Revenge, why do we want to get revenge so bad? And where does that urge come from? And how do we go from wanting to get revenge to being able to forgive someone or others? James Kimmel Jr., Yale lecturer and co-founder of the Yale Collaborative for Motive Studies, is on Getting Better this week to teach us just that. James gives us insight into the psychology of these complex emotions, the parts of the brain affected, and what research, studies and science shows us about forgiveness. James Kimmel, Jr., JD, is a lecturer in psychiatry at the Yale School of Medicine, the founder and co-director of the Yale Collaborative for Motive Control Studies, and a researcher, lawyer, and novelist who focuses on neuroscience, psychology, revenge, addiction, forgiveness, and violence. A breakthrough scholar and expert on revenge and forgiveness, he first identified compulsive revenge seeking as an addiction and first developed the behavioral addiction model of revenge and the brain disease model of revenge addiction as public health approaches for preventing and treating violence. More can be found on his personal website, www.jameskimmeljr.com. Full Video Episodes now available on YouTube. Not A Phase. Trans Lifeline Follow us on Instagram @gettingbetterwithjvn Jonathan on Instagram @jvn Senior Producer, Chris McClure Producer, Editor & Engineer is Nathanael McClure Production support from Julie Carrillo, Anne Currie, and Chad Hall Our theme music is also composed by Nathanael McClure. Curious about bringing your brand to life on the show? Email [email protected]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Better Babes. It's Jonathan Van Ness and welcome back to Getting Better. Have we got an episode on Tap for you?
0:08.5	I think the first time I realized that I was like very interested slash like taken by this idea of revenge.
0:17.3	It was Kill Bill one and two. Why am I so into into revenge why does our culture seem so hell-bent on
0:25.1	revenge breaking down the science of revenge we have james kimmel who has got such an interesting
0:31.7	story he's a lawyer turned researcher turned lecturer at yale casual He's got a new book coming out soon,
0:39.6	The Science of Revenge. So really, truly like perfect to talk to us about this today. James,
0:43.7	welcome. How are you? Thank you, Jonathan. I am fantastic. And I want to say, before you go any further,
0:49.4	your hair is fantastic. And it really bums me out because I can slightly remember having hair myself. And you are
0:58.1	just like bringing back all of those. We should get you a wig like this. A wig like that would be
1:02.2	wouldn't I look great? My highlighted natural color on your hair with these tortoise glasses,
1:06.3	I think would be breathtaking. If you're listening to the episode, then you can't see the
1:10.8	beautiful glasses. But you, but thanks for episode, then you can't see the beautiful
1:11.0	glasses, but you, but thanks for the compliment, because I mean, I also love your glasses and I love
1:14.6	your vibes. Thanks. Let's just start right off with this question. Does America slash like
1:20.6	humankind have a revenge problem? Oh yeah. We really do now. And the problem that we have,
1:27.0	it's a specific kind of revenge. It's
1:28.7	compulsive revenge seeking. It's not just any little bit of retaliation that we might engage in,
1:34.9	but when it becomes compulsive. And we're seeing ultra-high levels of compulsive revenge
1:40.8	seeking at, you know, the governmental level of the United States, at the very
1:45.6	highest levels in Congress, in the executive branch, sometimes even in the judicial branch.
1:51.0	We're seeing it down at the micro levels in our lives with our intimate partner relationships.
1:56.0	We see it with our children in schools, with everything from bullying and mean girls and mean texts
	...

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