Dependence on automotive infrastructure is robbing all of us at every stage of our lives of the normal developmental milestones and pleasures and the things that we need to be healthy.

If you name an issue that is vexing society right now, you can probably find a car at the bottom of it.

Hello and welcome to Tech Won't Save Us, made in partnership with The Nation magazine.

I'm your host, Paris Marks, and this week my guests are Doug Gordon and Sarah Goodyear.

Doug is a TV producer and Sarah is a journalist.

They are co-hosts of the War on Cars podcast and also co-authors of Life After Cars,

freeing ourselves from the tyranny of the automobile. Now, I'm a big fan of Doug and Sarah's show. I have been on the war on cars in the past to talk to them about my book and about some other issues.

And when I saw that their book was coming out, I said, okay, this is the perfect opportunity to have Doug and Sarah on Tech won't save us.

Because we talk a lot about technology on the show.

And obviously one of the technologies that has shaped our lives immensely is the car, right?

It might not be a digital technology, though increasingly it is that as well.

As automakers and tech companies try to infuse it with more digital technology, with more apps,

with more data collection, because that is the business model of the day.

And so in this conversation, we discuss both the broader effects of the car on our society.

You know, if we're thinking about what we have experienced for the past century

or so of the car's development and what it means for us today, but also, you know, those newer

aspects of it, right? You know, the self-driving car thing and, you know, these other attempts by

the tech industry to change the way that we get around. And I think Doug and Sarah have an interesting approach to this

and also a reason why it's not discussed so much in the book itself. The book focuses much more

fundamentally on the car and the more tangible aspects of this, not the different ideas that the tech

industry has had over the past decade and a half or so

for what the future of transportation, what the future of the car should look like,

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