Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves.

I'm Dori Shafrier.

And I'm Elise Hugh, and we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

And today, we have a great guest on the show, Stephanie Coons, who is, I would say, like, the leading,

the leading expert on the history of marriage.

Yeah.

And also like contemporary marriage.

And she has a new book out that we both really enjoyed.

I was preparing for this episode.

And around that same time, I got a newsletter from the feminist writer Liz Lenz,

who famously wrote a memoir about her divorce.

And I think it was like part of the big wave of divorce memoirs

that came out within the last couple of years.

And she wrote about how yet again,

Bustle or one of these groups,

one of these publications is describing this summer

as hot divorce day summer.

And like how being a divorce day isn't doesn't necessarily mean you have had to have been

divorced. But like it's a certain energy of like, I don't have, I don't have any cares left

to give, you know? And she, but then it's also kind of like an aesthetic.

And she gets into that also.

Oh, interesting.

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