Some of the most heated political debates are the ones that happen within parties or camps.

If you've heard the phrase, the narcissism of small differences, you know exactly what

I mean.

There are lots of internal arguments on the American left at the moment.

But if you zoom out enough, one of the fundamental disputes is over the viability of the current

system.

If you think American democracy is rotten to the core, or if you think capitalism is unsalvageable,

then you probably don't see any meaningful reforms on the horizon.

But if you think we're more or less stuck with the institutions we've got, then you're probably

looking for ways to improve them as much as possible. Because, well, the alternatives are worse.

You can call this the reform versus revolution divide. And while I'm sympathetic to arguments on both

sides, I'm ultimately a reformist. But what are the stakes of this debate? And what's the best way

to navigate it? I'm Sean Elling, and this is The Grey Area.

Today's guest is Eric Levitz. He's a features writer at New York Magazine and for my money,

one of our best political colonists. Recently, he wrote a piece titled Blaming Capitalism

is not an alternative to solving problems. He makes a pretty convincing case for reformism.

And it's rooted in a simple assumption. Capitalism isn't going anywhere,

and neither are the constraints of our constitutional system. So that means the American left needs a

political strategy that accepts these basic political realities. His argument interweaves policy

and philosophy. And I wanted to have them on the show to understand where he's coming from,

and why he thinks there won't be a revolution anytime soon.

The piece is extremely skeptical of revolution in general and a mode of rhetoric that kind of

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