I'm Brian Lehrer. This is my daily politics podcast from WNYC Studios. It's Monday, June 7th.

Last week, much of the country took note of the 100th anniversary of the Tulsa Race Massacre.

For many Americans, it was the first time they had heard about this atrocity that has not been taught in history class very much.

But much of last week's coverage still tended to treat the Tulsa Massacre as a discrete event.

So today, right now, we want to try to go further and try to put it into a larger

historical context. New York Times columnist Jamel Bowie always writes with an eye on historical

context. Writing last year about Tulsa's 99th anniversary, Jamel noted that the historian Danny

Goebel argued that the Tulsa massacre was best seen against the backdrop

of at least 10 lesser-known pogroms in other Oklahoma towns that had drenched the decade leading

up to Tulsa in 1921 in African-American blood. And yes, that quote used the word pogrom.

Jamel also noted that the historian Goebel likened the Tulsa attack to the murderous pogroms,

that the Russian Empire unleashed on Jewish communities during the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

In both cases, the authorities hoped to drive out, despise minorities, by allowing marauders to kill

and loot at will, wrote the historian Goebel. These days, Jamel Bowie is on parental leave from the

Times, cradling a one-month-old, he tweeted recently, but did at least get to tweet about some of this during

the Masquer Anniversary, and he is good enough to tip his work and life balance a little more

toward work for these coming minutes. So, Jamel, we always appreciate it when you come on,

and we really appreciate it when you're on leave. So welcome back to WNYC. It's my pleasure.

Would you talk more about the term that you have used several times to understand attacks like

these racial pogrom? Why does pogrom an important word here?

I think it's an important word because it can help distinguish this kind of collective racial violence from other forms of racial violence from the period.

I think it is tempting and not enough, this isn't a bad thing.

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