Why Trump Is Targeting Foreign Aid, with Atul Gawande
The Political Scene | The New Yorker
WNYC Studios and The New Yorker
4.2 • 3.3K Ratings
🗓️ 8 February 2025
⏱️ 32 minutes
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Summary
The Washington Roundtable is joined by Atul Gawande, the former head of the U.S. Agency for International Development, to discuss Donald Trump and Elon Musk’s rapid-fire dismantling of the agency. They explore the life-and-death implications of the Trump Administration ending foreign aid, why the agency was targeted, and which federal agencies might be next.
This week’s reading:
- “Behind the Chaotic Attempt to Freeze Federal Assistance,” by Atul Gawande
- “Elon Musk’s Revolutionary Terror,” by Susan B. Glasser
- “Donald Trump’s Madness on Gaza,” by David Remnick
- “How Donald Trump Is Transforming Executive Power,” by Isaac Chotiner
- “What Happened to the Trump Resistance?” by Brady Brickner-Wood
- “Donald Trump’s Anti-Woke Wrecking Ball,” by Benjamin Wallace-Wells
- “Trump’s Trade War Is Only Getting Going,” by John Cassidy
To discover more podcasts from The New Yorker, visit newyorker.com/podcasts. To send in feedback on this episode, write to [email protected] with “The Political Scene” in the subject line.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Welcome to the political scene, a weekly discussion about the big questions in American politics. |
| 0:11.0 | I'm Susan Glasser and I'm joined by my colleagues Jane Mayer and Evan Osnos. |
| 0:15.0 | Hey, Jane. |
| 0:16.0 | Hey, Susan. |
| 0:17.0 | Hey, Evan. Great to be with you. |
| 0:19.0 | Great to see you guys. |
| 0:38.0 | This week, President Trump and the richest man in the world, Elon Musk, set their sights on a new project, dismantling a small agency dedicated to providing foreign aid around the world, the U.S. Agency for International Development. |
| 0:42.7 | In an effort to discredit its work, the administration has spread conspiracy theories and lies, including that the agency spent tens of millions of dollars on condoms sent to the Gaza |
| 0:49.3 | strip. Also, that it was secretly somehow propping up media organizations like Politico. |
| 0:55.2 | Not true. Not even a little bit. |
| 0:57.8 | But now an agency that most Americans had never heard of is the main target of MAGA. |
| 1:03.5 | How did that happen? |
| 1:05.0 | Elon Musk has called it a criminal organization, quote unquote, and is boasted about feeding it into the wood shipper. |
| 1:12.0 | And Democrats are in the near impossible position of having to explain the relevance of this |
| 1:16.7 | agency to the American people while also trying to keep lifesaving critical programs afloat. |
| 1:22.4 | So what's fueling this effort by Musk and Trump? |
| 1:24.7 | And what's it like to be in the middle of the firestorm? |
| 1:28.8 | Joining us now is Atul Gawande. He's a renowned surgeon, author of four books, and former head of global health at |
| 1:35.0 | USAID in the Biden administration. Before that, he was a longtime staff writer for the New Yorker. |
| 1:41.6 | Atul, thank you so much for joining us today. We're so grateful |
| 1:45.8 | for your time. Hello. We're so glad you could join us today. Thanks, Atul. Yes. Delighted. |
| 1:51.1 | Atul. Tell us what is it like to have been in the middle of this firestorm defending an agency |
... |
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