I'm Flor Lickman, and you're listening to Science Friday.

If you don't recognize the tune because you're too young or too old or too cool, no worries, man.

It's Farmhouse by the band Fish, and tens of millions have streamed it and countless

others have vibed to it during the band's legendary live shows. Fish has toured for over 40 years,

and one of the draws of their performances, which can go on for many hours, are finding these

moments aflo. That feeling of being locked in or in the

zone, musicians and artists talk about it, athletes do too. You've probably experienced it. For Fish,

it's when the band members sync up in an improvised jam and find new musical ideas in real time.

Fish fans live for these transcendent moments, but so do

Fish's musicians. The band is flow-seeking and flow-obsessed, to the point that Mike Gordon,

the band-spacist, is funding scientific research to better understand flow state. Mike is here

to tell us about this work, along with his research collaborator,

neuroscientist Dr. Greg Applebaum from the University of California, San Diego. Great to have you

both here. Thanks for having us. It's a pleasure. Okay, Mike, when you and the band talk about

flow state, is that the language that you use? What do you call it?

Huh. Well, that's a good question because it's inherently hard to talk about. It's intangible.

So we're already out of the gates with a problem. And no, I don't think flow state would be the words in the band dialect.

But the band, well, first they would say, okay, we were really hooking up.

Because the thought is that music is a communication and improvisation especially is all communicating between us and the audience, you know, writing on the energy.

But, um, so hooking up is really important. And it doesn't happen readily. You have to cultivate it and

train yourself to do it, to listen more than your, you know, like in a conversation.

If you only listen to yourself, then it's going to be a very bad conversation.

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