The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co-production of WMIC and The New Yorker.

Welcome to The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick.

There was a time when libertarians in politics seemed extreme somehow.

Their concerns esoteric.

The core libertarian principle of a small, even minimal government aligned with the Republican platform,

but just to a degree.

At the same time, libertarians have often taken a very distinct approach on civil liberties and many other social issues.

But as Donald Trump tries to impose a more and more authoritarian style of government,

one of the most consistent critics within his party has been Rand Paul,

the libertarian-leaning senator from the state of Kentucky.

Senator Paul was the sole Republican to vote in favor of restricting Trump's power to prosecute war in Iran.

One of the few remaining deficit hawks, he's bucked Donald Trump's priorities on tariffs, funding the Iran war, and the ballooning budget for ICE.

During a fight over the tax bill last year, Trump said Rand Paul, quote, loves voting no on everything, unquote.

He's called him a sick wacko.

Rand Paul ran for president in 2016, and he may well be a contender in 2028.

And we spoke this past week.

Senator, we're going to talk at some length about the war in Iran and about President Trump.

But before I engage the war itself, it's not gone unnoticed in a lot of circles, whether

left, right or center, that the nature of the things that the president

has said and how he said it, whether it's about wiping out a civilization of 92 million people,

or just how he's conducted himself in the course of these wars, has been very worrying to a lot of

people, whether in the Republican Party or Democratic Party. What is your

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