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So a lot of people are upset about flop cameras, ring doorbells, all their surveillance that's happening. And there's this great organization called

the Electronic Frontier Foundation. I've talked about it. We've talked about several times here on the

show, the EFF. And join us out right now is Dr. Matthew from the AFF. And he has a new book

out called Police and the Empire City. Hello, Dr. Matt. Hello, how are you? Good. So tell us what do you,

what would you tell the average American who has a ring doorbell and they think its primary

purpose is there to track who's at their front door, to track packages, and to find a lost

puppy.

I would say that you bought that camera, you put it on your house because you thought it was

going to make your home safer, but what you don't know or you might not think about

very often is that it is part of a very, very large surveillance

network that is openly being kind of sold to police as something they could use every single

day. But then you have the other cyber service as well, but it helps solve crime and find stolen

vehicles. That might not be the only thing that it does. I mean, I think, yes,

...