Why No One Thinks They're in a Cult
The Michael Shermer Show
Michael Shermer
4.3 • 1K Ratings
🗓️ 5 October 2025
⏱️ 74 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
What really defines a cult—and why do smart, well-intentioned people get caught up in them? In this episode, Michael Shermer sits down with cult intervention specialist Ashlen Hilliard to explore the psychology of high-control groups and the people drawn into them. Her work has been featured in prominent media outlets like Hulu, NewsNation, HuffPost, and BET+.
In 2022, Ashlen founded People Leave Cults, offering intervention and recovery resources for survivors and concerned loved ones. As one of the few Cult Intervention Specialists in the country, Ashlen consults with a team of experts to develop personalized intervention strategies for families that have a loved one involved in a range of coercive situations, including cults, gangs, domestic violence, trafficking, and violent extremism. She also served as the Director of Events for the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA), organizing regional and international events, workshops, and conferences for those affected by the cult phenomena and psychological manipulation.
She is touring the Fall of 2025 in these cities for her show https://www.psychologyofcults.com/:
October 8 Jacksonville, FL Florida Theatre
October 9 Newberry, SC Newberry Opera House
October 11 Huntsville, AL Mars Music Hall
October 12 Bristol, TN Paramount Bristol
October 14 Charleston, WV Maier Foundation Performing Hall
October 16 Stroudsburg, PA Sherman Theater
October 17 Morristown, NJ Mayo Performing Arts Center
October 18 Stamford, CT Palace Theatre
October 19 Concord, NH Chubb Theatre
October 21 Buffalo, NY Electric City
October 22 Columbus, OH The Southern Theatre
October 24 Pontiac, MI Flagstar Strand Theatre
October 26 Cincinnati, OH Bogart's
October 28 Chicago, IL City Winery
October 29 Indianapolis, IN Clowes Memorial Hall
October 30 Cleveland, OH Connor Palace
November 23 Livermore, CA Livermore Valley Performing Arts Center
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | You're listening to The Michael Shermer Show. |
| 0:15.4 | All right, hey everybody, it's Michael Schumer. |
| 0:17.4 | It's time for another episode of the Michael Schumer show. |
| 0:19.4 | Here we go. |
| 0:20.1 | Great topic today. Colts. One of our |
| 0:22.8 | favorites here. My guest is Ashlyn Hilliard, the next generation of cult intervention specialists |
| 0:29.4 | whose work has been featured in prominent media outlets like Hulu, News Nation, Huffington Post, and B.E.T. |
| 0:36.4 | Plus. The public remains fascinated by Colts, and inham Post, and BET Plus. |
| 0:43.6 | The public remains fascinated by Colts, and in her show, she has a live show coming up this fall. |
| 0:49.0 | We'll be releasing this shortly before the first episode, or I guess the first event happens. |
| 0:51.0 | I'll tell you the cities in just a moment. |
| 0:55.6 | But the show is called The Psychology of Colts, in which she explores the psychology of these destructive groups. We'll get into how you define a cult in just a minute. |
| 1:02.1 | But also the individuals who become entangled in them and what you can do about it if you're one of |
| 1:07.5 | them or if you're a family member or friend or a significant other of somebody |
| 1:11.4 | that's caught in one of these things. What do you do? You turn to Ashland. Okay. Her early |
| 1:16.8 | interest in the dynamics of belief and influence was ignited by her upbringing in Utah. Okay, |
| 1:21.7 | there's a clue. She was surrounded by a unique blend of culture, religion, and history. Yes, |
| 1:27.1 | we have discussed the Church of Latter-day Saints here many times on this program. |
| 1:31.9 | This curiosity drew her back to Utah after college, where she worked as a case manager, |
| 1:36.8 | supporting individuals exiting diverse Mormon fundamentalist, polygamous communities across the West. |
| 1:43.3 | This challenging and sometimes dangerous work, |
| 1:45.8 | oh boy, helped shaped her become a fierce advocate for survivors. In 2022, Ashland founded |
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