Late last year, the caretakers of the Cathedral of Notre Dame, after rebuilding from the fire of 2019,

set off a new firestorm of protest when they unveiled replacement stained glass windows.

The controversy reignited an old question for me. Why is modern art so ugly?

And no matter how much people hate it, the complainers are always told to sit down and shut up.

You don't understand it's art.

Trust the artists.

As if just calling something art, or worse, calling something sacred art, justifies how ugly it is.

So much of it seems more like anti-art.

Recently, I was moved almost to tears by an incredible short film titled In the Space

Between Ages. The story follows artist Donie McManus, an Irishman who

sculptures now grace sacred spaces from his homeland to America, from Florence to Rome. New artists

like Donie today are bridging the gap, the civilizational void in which we find ourselves, and embracing

their art as a path to transcendence and redemption.

I sat down with Donie, and the conversation did not disappoint.

Listen in as he offers a stunning reflection on the meaning of freedom, art, the liturgy, and what it means to be human in an age of ugliness.

After the interview, be sure to watch the entire film in the space between ages, available now at Catholic Votes' new digital platform, zeal.co.

Donie McMahonis, welcome to The Deep.

Thank you.

It's great to have you here.

And I'm so excited to speak to you about art and the meaning of art for our lives and our connection to the transcendent.

But first, I have to ask you, for those of you watching on the platform on video, you see above

Doni's head what appears to be an army person.

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