Why Is Leaving MAGA So Difficult?

The New Yorker Radio Hour

WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

News, David, Books, Arts, Storytelling, Wnyc, New, Remnick, News Commentary, Yorker, Politics

4.2 • 5.5K Ratings

🗓️ 25 November 2025

⏱️ 23 minutes

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Summary

Rich Logis was a MAGA warrior before he hung up his red hat, and founded the organization Leaving MAGA to help others do the same. He speaks with Radio Hour producer Adam Howard.

Transcript

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0:00.0	This is The New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker.
0:11.1	This is The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick.
0:15.8	A recent poll, this one from NBC, found that only 30% of the American public identifies with the MAGA movement.
0:23.6	Now that's very far from a national mandate, but MAGA has a huge influence in power over the entire electorate.
0:31.6	To people outside the movement, the intense loyalty of the coalition in the face of endless scandals and political setbacks
0:39.0	is sometimes absolutely confounding. Defections seem rare and they come with the risk of reprisal,
0:46.0	even reprisals from the president himself. Our producer, Adam Howard, spoke to someone who's
0:51.9	trying to make defection easier.
1:00.9	Back in 2016, Rich Logis was a man in search of a political movement.
1:05.6	He was drawn to candidates who were looking to break the stranglehold of the two-party system,
1:08.5	and he even voted for Ralph Nader more than once.
1:13.7	When Donald Trump came along, he liked his economic rhetoric, but he especially liked that he was viewed as a threat by the establishment.
1:17.0	Logis became a Make America Great Again, true believer.
1:20.9	He wrote MAGA articles, he hosted a MAGA podcast, he even contributed to the call
1:25.5	script for the Trump campaign.
1:27.4	But somewhere along the way, Logis hung up his red hat for good. He even contributed to the call script for the Trump campaign.
1:31.0	But somewhere along the way, Logis hung up his red hat for good.
1:33.8	He built a website called Leaving Maga,
1:39.9	where people like himself can share their stories and provide an outlet for friends and families struggling with Maga believers.
1:45.9	I talked with Rich Logis the other day about what it means to walk away from the MAGA movement.
1:59.8	Rich, you once wrote that the Democratic Party is the most dangerous group in the history of our republic, foreign or domestic, more than Islamic supremacists, more than the Nazis.
2:02.9	Did you really believe that and what led you to that conclusion? Sadly, I did. And one of the reasons I believed it is because all I consumed was a very
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