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This is the Tom Harbin program.

So it's not real often that people get an entire chapter of one of my books named after them,

but our next guest does and did the hidden history of American health care why

sickness bankrupts you and makes others insanely rich.

My newest book in the hidden history series has a chapter titled with Wendel Potter's name,

Good Man and a Bad Job. He is the president of the Center for Health and Democracy.

He is the president of business leaders for health care transformation. He's the founder of

Tarbel. He's the author of two books about the incredibly bizarre state of our privatized

for-profit health insurance industry. Deadly spin and nation on the take.

Wendel Potter is his Twitter handle. Wendel, welcome back to the program. What's the best website

for people to track down the work you're doing here? You can find me at wendelputter.com

and also Center for Health and Democracy.org. And thank you Tom and thanks so much for including

me in your book. I'm so honored. Oh my pleasure. I mean you've you live through hell.

I mean you know and I hope I characterize that in the book. I mean you just went through hell

as a senior executive at one of these health insurance companies struggling with your conscience

...