Why Having the Courage to Defy Makes us Happier (with Dr Sunita Sah)
The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos
Pushkin Industries
4.7 • 14.8K Ratings
🗓️ 8 September 2025
⏱️ 42 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
We all go along with things we don't want to do... or worse, things that make us feel uncomfortable or morally uneasy. We comply for lots of reasons. We don't want to make trouble, or upset our friends, our bosses or people in authority. But Dr Sunita Sah says we should be more ready to defy.
Defy: the Power of No in a World That Demands Yes is one of Dr Laurie's favorite books of 2025, so she invited Sunita to explain how we can say no more often and what that means for improving our happiness.
(With thanks to the Milgram family for allowing us to use the archive audio in this episode. It's from Stanley Milgram Papers (MS 1406). Manuscripts and Archives, Yale University Library.)
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | This is an IHeart podcast. |
| 0:04.0 | Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive and more creative? |
| 0:09.6 | I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of the Happiness Project, |
| 0:13.1 | bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. |
| 0:18.7 | My co-host and Happiness Guinea Pig is my sister, Elizabeth Kraft. |
| 0:22.9 | That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. |
| 0:26.6 | Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. |
| 0:31.8 | Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media. |
| 0:43.4 | Pushkin. It's September. Fall is here, and that means back to school. My college students have already arrived on campus at Yale. |
| 0:55.4 | So it's time to say goodbye to beach days with a good book and late summer nights, and hello |
| 0:59.7 | to lecture halls, lesson plans, and an ever-growing list of priorities. |
| 1:04.5 | The end of summer often feels bittersweet. |
| 1:07.0 | If we're not careful, autumn life can start to move very quickly. |
| 1:10.7 | So as we switch into this new season, I want to help you find a little more happiness. |
| 1:15.3 | And that's why I want to spend the next few episodes sharing all the incredible insights I learned |
| 1:19.6 | from stuff I had a chance to read on my summer break. |
| 1:22.9 | In this upcoming season of the Happiness Lab, we'll be diving into some of my favorite new books from |
| 1:27.6 | 2025. We'll hear from brilliant authors whose work can teach us lots of things that are relevant |
| 1:32.7 | for feeling better, like how to make better decisions, how to improve our work-life balance, |
| 1:37.8 | and even how to turn scary things into sources of joy. And today, we're focused on a question |
| 1:42.9 | that I struggle with a lot. How to say no more |
| 1:45.8 | often and how to mean it. Today's installment of my favorite books of 2025 is by a physician |
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