We need Greenland, and I think we're going to get it one way or the other.

Gatay humans.

Welcome to the safe space for dangerous ideas.

Here's a dangerous idea for you.

As climate chaos reshapes the geography of the planet in the 21st century,

we are going to have to fundamentally question which parts of the planet in the 21st century, we are going to have to fundamentally question

which parts of the globe are strategically important and strategically unimportant.

When President Trump floated the idea of the United States acquiring Greenland,

many people scoffed and just chalked that up to a random brain fart.

But in fact, there is actually a serious debate amongst defence analysts and security experts

about control of the Far North Atlantic and the Arctic in the 21st century.

As polar ice caps melt, as sea lanes become more navigable, the question of who

owns these new avenues for shipping and spying, for mining and submarining, and indeed for warfare,

becomes more and more pressing. Today's guest, Sherry Goodman, knows more about this than

almost anybody else. She was

the chief environmental officer for the Pentagon for the entire American Defense Department

during the Clinton administration, and she had a specific expertise in the polar regions,

in Arctic security, in the denuclearization of former Soviet states, in Russian nuclear submarines, in the

Baltic Sea, and indeed in climate chaos. She is currently a senior fellow with the Polar Institute

and the Environmental Change and Security Program with the Woodrow Wilson International Center.

She has a book. It's called Threat Multiplier, Climate, Military Leadership,

and the Fight for Global Security. And when I heard her speaking in fascinating ways about this

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