We had back when we had pagers, I got paged out on Christmas morning sitting in church for our Christmas morning service.

And we had a guy, and of course, I'm on the SWAT team.

He actually poured gas all over himself and the house, and I had that SWAT call out on Christmas morning.

I'm Ryan Gresham.

And this?

This is Gunnett. I'm Ryan Gresham. And this?

This is Gun Talk Nation.

This Gun Talk Nation brought to you by Caldwell, Ruger, Range Ready, Smith & Wesson, and Vortex.

Hey, welcome into Gun Talk Nation. Today on Gun Talk Nation, we're going to talk about training.

We're going to talk about force-on-force. We've got Mike McCaslin from T4E. It's one of the companies we work with on the first-person defender show. And Mike, you travel all around the country,

working with law enforcement and training them up.

And obviously,

they've been using this type of stuff for years

to get that real-life training, right?

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

So I always try to explain to people

because most regular gun folks don't get to do this type of training. And I always try to explain to people because most regular gun folks don't get to do this type of training.

And I always attempt to explain to them how it's different than square range shooting your real gun at a cardboard target that's not moving.

Correct.

How do you explain it to people when you say, but this is different?

This is, this is a lot different. It's more, it's going to be more based, real life based,

than like you said, shooting at a cardboard target that's not attacking back. We, we do, you know,

...