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bulwark. And I'm joined today by Tom Steyer. He is a climate investor and a former 2020

Democratic presidential candidate. Tom, thanks for being here. Lauren, it's nice to see you again.

You recently wrote a substack piece. You're on substack. Welcome to the Substack Club.

You wrote a piece about rising populism and how it's gaining energy and visibility on the left. And in the piece, you kind of express some concerns about it, and you argue that some of the solutions that populace and populism put forward, quote, risk making the very problems they aim to solve

even worse.

So explain to me what you meant by that.

So let me say that what the populists are doing to me has a lot of real value.

What they're doing is they're listening to people.

They're addressing actual problems

on the ground that Americans are experiencing. So they're talking about rent, not inflation. They're

talking about food prices. They're talking about the issues that are kitchen table issues for

Americans, and they're coming up with real-time solutions

for them. And that's why they're getting so much attention and why they're getting real support.

What I was trying to say in that article was this, we need to do what they're doing. We need to hear what's going on in the real world.

I mean, my belief is we describe inflation as 2.9%.

But when you really look at what people's costs are, for most people, it's rent, health care, food,

gas, and utilities.

And those are going up 9%.

So the populace, the people that were describing as populace, are

hearing that and reacting to it with solutions. But when we think about solutions, and obviously

the American people are starved for real solutions to real problems, there's a short-term solution,

...