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This is the science podcast for August 14th, 2025. I'm Sarah Crespi. First this week, producer

Megan Cantwell, and contributing correspondent Thera Reardon discuss alternative

approaches to animal testing, from a heart on a chip to a mini organ in a dish.

Next on the show, expert voices columnist Melanie Mitchell digs into artificial intelligences

lies. Why do chatbots fabricate answers and pretend to do math?

Melanie describes the stress tests

large language models undergo, called red-teaming,

and the steps needed to better understand

what's going on inside these models.

Thank you. For decades, the path to developing new drugs and treatments has first involved testing in an animal and then bringing it to human trials.

But this week, contributing correspondent Sarah Reardon wrote about alternatives to animal testing that are beginning to catch on. Thank you so much for joining me, Sarah.

Thanks for having me. Animal trials have always kind of been the gold standard before you go into

human trials, but when it actually plays out, how good is it at predicting what actually happens

when you bring it into a human? They've been a decent model, but they're not perfect models.

There have been a number of cases in which something that appears safe in animals,

it doesn't turn out to be safe in humans.

...