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Hi everybody, John Donvan here. And a note before the debate you're about to listen to, it looks

at the status of the war in Iran.

Now, in the past few days, what had been a tenuous ceasefire now seems to be clearly non-functional, hostilities have resumed, although not to the level seen previously. I am mentioning this because a few days ago, on July 7th, when the ceasefire was still holding, we taped a debate on the question of who won the war. Though this is an ever-evolving situation, obviously, and perhaps

because it is, the argument holding, we taped a debate on the question of who won the war. Though this is an ever-evolving

situation, obviously, and perhaps because it is, the arguments made when we recorded still stand.

I just wanted you to have that perspective. You know, in writing about war, poets and historians

and the news media have tended to use a list of word pairings that get used over and over again,

such as overwhelming force, hasty retreat, ignominious defeat, decisive victory.

When the U.S. and Israel launched their attack on Iran in February, decisive victory is what was promised.

Now, months later, does the outcome, such as it stands, live up to that promise?

Well, the answer depends on part on how you define victory, and how you keep score and what remains

unresolved, and also whom you believe. All we know is that the Trump administration and the

clerics who rule Iran are both declaring themselves the victors. So which is it? That's what we're going to find out.

We are posing this question, who won the Iran war, Trump or Tehran? And we're bringing on two

subject matter experts. People have really thought about this and have strong opinions and who

will be taking opposing views as we see them argue it out. So let me introduce our debaters, arguing Tehran in answer to the

question, who won the Iran war? We have Suzanne Maloney, who is vice president and director

...