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This is fresh air. I'm Terry Gross.

Laura Lumer is a hero in much of the MAGA world.

She's an unofficial advisor to President Trump

and describes herself as Trump's chief loyalty enforcer,

a proud Islamophob, and a prophet who speaks the truth.

I'm a very, very aggressive person,

which is why a lot of people have very strong feelings about me.

Some people like me.

Some people, I don't really think people like me.

They either love me or they hate me.

It's not like a loopworm feeling, right?

It's not like, oh, yeah, I kind of like or kind of don't.

People either really like, really love me or they just, they hate me.

To those who love her, she's Trump's

protector and informs him about conspiracies against him. To her detractors, she's a wacky

conspiracy theorist who uses her connection to Trump, as well as her large following on social

media and her streaming show Lumer Unleashed, to have people she accuses of disloyalty

fired. It appears she's been pretty successful. She considers herself a journalist, although

she doesn't follow journalistic ethics, and what she writes often has a distorted relationship

...