Okay, this is designed as an end-of-the-day lecture.

After, I think, the kind of ambiguities, which I think plague in some ways,

discussion about justification or the sheer conceptual complexities of some of the issues

about the Lord's Supper, the Mass.

This question is, I think, in some ways, conceptually simpler.

But as in some ways it's also a decisive question. One, I think, in some ways, conceptually simpler, but as in some ways it's also

a decisive question. One, I think, mistake the modern ecumenical movement made was in thinking

that discussing the issues of the Reformation, you would then settle the theological issues,

you would then be able to bring about Protestant Catholic unity.

The mistake is thinking that ecumenical relations are between the relations between theologians

or the relations between concepts.

Ecumenical relations about the relations between communities.

Communities constituted by the gospel so they believe, but still human communities.

So you're going to have to relate actual communities, which can be quite tricky.

I was on the Executive Council of the Lutheran Church in America.

When it merged with the American Lutheran Church, these were basically, they had different ethnic backgrounds.

People asked me, which Lutheran Church I belong to, I belong to the East Coast German, moderate, Danish, Finnish, Swedish church, as opposed to the Midwestern German, conservative Danish, Norwegian church.

These merged in the 80s.

And this is always the case.

When push comes to shove, the hardest thing in a church merger, clergy pensions.

You got to merge the two pension funds. Now, you know, we're talking doctrines one thing, besides my pensions another.

Now we're talking serious matters. And it almost blew up at the end because of an argument about clergy pensions.

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