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Another Day with Ana Marie Cox

"White Fragility 101"

Another Day with Ana Marie Cox

Ana Marie Cox and Open Mike Eagle

News, Arts, Performing Arts, Business, Society & Culture, Politics

4.66.4K Ratings

🗓️ 24 August 2018

⏱️ 57 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

On this week’s pod, Ana (@anamariecox) sat down with Robin DiAngelo, author of the book White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism. To kick things off, Robin explained what white fragility is, and the impact that it has not just on white people, but white progressives in particular. Ana and Robin then talked about the need for people who recognize racism’s ills not to get complacent or arrogant, but rather be actively anti-racist, and continue educating themselves. They then switched gears, and explored why white women often fail to be allies for people of color before probing the ways de facto segregation and tokenizing minorities are so deeply problematic. Ana and Robin also put forth a series of suggestions for what well-meaning white people should do when they put their foot in their mouths and say something racist. You can find Robin’s book here: https://www.amazon.com/White-Fragility-People-About-Racism/dp/0807047414 Robin referenced an article she wrote, which you can find here: https://libjournal.uncg.edu/ijcp/article/viewFile/249/116 Get in touch with us on Twitter at @crooked_friends or email us at [email protected]. Thank you to our sponsors! Visit ritual.com/friends to choose clean ingredients, backed by science. Get 25% off when you keep all five items in your box at stitchfix.com/friends. Head to framebridge.com and use the promo code “friends” for an additional 15% off your first order.​

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hi, I'm Anna Marie Cox and welcome to With Friends Like These, the show where we talk about the differences between us without letting them divide us.

0:11.0

So I am a little self-conscious about how much I talk about my recovery on this show.

0:17.0

I am self-conscious in part because 12-step programs have kind of conflicting traditions about being out.

0:25.0

And so I'm always thinking about that.

0:28.0

And I'm self-conscious because I do get some feedback that my recovery is not really relevant to the show.

0:34.0

Which, you know, it's my show, but it's your show too. So okay.

0:39.0

So in general, I try to keep the recovery talked to a minimum except when it seems really relevant.

0:48.0

But it's relevant a lot of the time for me.

0:52.0

It's relevant because the paradigm of recovery, of relinquishing a crutch that has become a weapon is a great paradigm for understanding one's place as an abuser of power.

1:05.0

Whether that's the power of whiteness or patriarchy or ableism.

1:09.0

And in case you haven't noticed, abuse of power is a major theme for the show.

1:16.0

The show takes its name from a phrase with friends like these who needs enemies that is essentially a tiny parable about the abuse of power.

1:28.0

The saying the show takes its name from with friends like these who needs enemies is essentially a tiny parable about the abuse of power.

1:38.0

And the way that I see it, I am an abuser of whiteness in the same way I'm a drug addict.

1:44.0

I didn't choose to be an addict. I'm not a bad person because I'm an addict. But once I realized my addiction was harmful to myself and others, I became responsible for the damage done.

1:54.0

And I became responsible for taking steps to keep me from acting on my addiction.

2:00.0

But I will also never stop being an addict. There won't come a time when the easy answers that I get from drugs will stop being appealing to me.

2:10.0

I have to actively create alternative behaviors for myself and I have to watch out for falling into behaviors that should they continue will lead me to using.

2:21.0

I also didn't choose to reap the benefits of whiteness. I am also not a bad person because I received those benefits.

2:30.0

But now that I know the damage that systemic oppression has done and does, I am responsible for taking steps to undo that damage and I am responsible for how I use my own whiteness.

2:42.0

And I will never stop being white. I will never stop being tempted by the easy answers that whiteness offers me.

2:50.0

I have to actively create alternative behaviors.

...

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