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When Things Fall Apart (Throwback)

Throughline

NPR

Documentary, History, Society & Culture

4.616.4K Ratings

🗓️ 11 January 2024

⏱️ 54 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Climate change, political unrest, random violence: modern society can often feel like what the filmmaker Werner Herzog calls "a thin layer of ice on top of an ocean of chaos and darkness." In the United States, polls indicate that many people believe law and order is the only thing protecting us from the savagery of our neighbors. This idea is often called "veneer theory." But is it true?

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Transcript

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0:00.0

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0:08.5

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0:14.0

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0:16.0

An old man says to his grandson, there is a fight going on inside me.

0:30.0

It's a terrible fight between two wolves.

0:38.0

One is evil, angry, greedy, jealous, arrogant, and cowardly.

0:45.0

The other is good, peaceful, loving, modest, generous, honest and trustworthy. These two wolves are also fighting with anew and inside every other person too.

0:50.0

After a moment the boy asks which wolf will win?

0:57.0

The oatmeal smiles, the one you feed. What we assume in other people is what we get out of them.

1:11.5

What we assume in other people is what we get out of them.

1:15.0

Our view of human nature tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

1:19.0

If we assume that people are fundamentally selfish,

1:22.0

then that's how they will behave.

1:25.8

If we assume that people are fundamentally decent, then maybe we can create a very different

1:29.9

kind of society.

1:31.2

This is Rutgers Bragman. I'm a Dutch historian and I'm the

1:35.2

author of the book Human Kind A Hopeful History. But this story doesn't start off

1:40.4

hopeful. There's a very widespread assumption that human beings are basically

1:45.6

selfish, brutal, barbarian. And this is author Rebecca Solnit. Cowardly, just sort of despicable and that civilization is some sort of structural overlay

1:57.6

that keeps us from realizing our true brutal natures, preventing us from doing what we would really do if we could do anything we

2:04.4

wanted which would be rape, loot, pillage, maraud, steel. And that idea that if you take away civilization that people are essentially evil has been an easy cell.

2:18.0

Introduce a little anarchy.

...

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