When Loving Means Letting Go with Jen Hatmaker

Learning How to See with Brian McLaren

Center for Action and Contemplation

Christianity, Religion & Spirituality

4.8 • 748 Ratings

🗓️ 18 December 2025

⏱️ 54 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

What do we do when life unravels in painful ways — like navigating an unexpected divorce? On today's episode of Learning How to See, Carmen and Brian are joined by New York Times Bestselling author Jen Hatmaker. With great humor and authenticity, Jen takes us through the vulnerable experience of sharing her story, the transformation she went through after loss, and the spiritual power of starting over. Jen reflects on themes from her new memoir Awake,⁠ and shares how her divorce helped her trust her inner knowing, become more fully embodied, and rebuild a life rooted in integrity rather than expectation. Tune in to discover how community and self-compassion can guide us through seasons of upheaval — and how choosing honesty can become its own form of liberation. Resources: Pick up a copy of Jen's latest book, Awake, here. Learn more about Jen here. Find the transcript for today's episode here. Connect with us: Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season? Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠

Transcript

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0:00.0	You're listening to a podcast by the Center for Action and Contemplation. To learn more, visit
0:05.5	cac.org. Hi, everyone. It's Brian. One of the assumptions that guide us in making learning
0:12.9	how to see is that we really learn best together in conversation, in community, and by asking
0:19.5	questions we can't answer alone. I have a favor to ask.
0:23.3	If this podcast has been helpful to you, would you consider leaving a rating or review wherever you
0:28.8	listen? That small gesture helps other spiritual seekers find their way here, and it helps us
0:34.4	grow the community of people learning how to see and learning how to love.
0:38.5	And please keep your questions coming. Your questions guide us and they help us feel connected
0:43.7	as fellow learners. You can always reach us at podcasts at cac.org.
0:51.7	Hi, I'm Carmen Acevedo Butcher.
0:55.0	Welcome to Learning How to See.
0:58.0	As Father Richard Rohr often says,
1:00.0	contemplation is meeting all the reality we can bear.
1:04.0	So each season, we explore some aspect of learning to see reality.
1:09.0	And this season, we're exploring what it means to see with eyes of love.
1:15.2	And I'm Brian McLaren.
1:16.8	Carmen and I would like to thank you for trusting us with this time
1:20.0	and for being the kind of person who cares about learning how to see with eyes of love.
1:25.3	In today's episode, we'll be joined by Jen Hatmaker, podcaster, speaker, advocate, educator,
1:33.2	mother, and author of many books, including her most recent, Awake.
1:38.8	And we'll be considering the topic of when loving means letting go.
1:47.6	Then after the interview with Jen, Carmen and I will have a brief response to our interview, and then we will lead you in a guided meditation, concluding with a
	...

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