When Conservatism Meant Freedom

The David Frum Show

The Atlantic

Politics, News, News Commentary

4.6 • 2.4K Ratings

🗓️ 15 October 2025

⏱️ 61 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

On this episode of The David Frum Show, The Atlantic’s David Frum opens with observations about the ongoing government shutdown, how it could be a strategic mistake for Republicans, and why this political standoff is best understood as a “quasi-election” about the rule of law itself. Then Frum is joined by Lord Charles Moore, the authorized biographer of Margaret Thatcher, to mark the centenary of her birth. Together, they look back on Thatcher’s transformation of Britain, from nationalized stagnation to a revitalized free-market democracy, and her alliance with Ronald Reagan, which helped bring the Cold War to a close. Moore explains how Thatcher’s belief in “law-based liberty” and her defense of national sovereignty set her apart from both libertarians and nationalists, and why her example of disciplined, principled leadership feels more and more distant in the politics of today. In the book segment, David discusses Stefan Zweig’s The World of Yesterday, and reflects on exile, despair, and why holding on to hope, rather than despair, matters when history suddenly turns dark. Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Atlantic subscribers also get access to exclusive subscriber audio in Apple Podcasts. Subscribe today at TheAtlantic.com/listener. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	What if you could listen to all your books, docs, PDFs and articles, as if they were a podcast?
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0:15.5	In the Premier League, everyone pushes their hardest to win. And now it's your turn.
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0:26.2	based on rules set by an icon. And to help you on your way, I've got a tip to help you build your
0:30.9	team. Make sure you keep an eye on fixtures. Who are the players up against next? Sometimes it's not
0:36.3	about form. Like there are some players that
0:38.5	for whatever reason, always play well against certain teams to do your research. To get involved
0:44.3	in the EPL Fantasy Challenge, all you've got to do is grab a Coke and scan the code on the pack.
0:49.1	Just by playing, you get a chance to win Coke swag or vouchers. But if you beat the icon who set the rules,
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1:01.9	Grab a Coke, drink it in. Hello, and welcome back to the David Frum show.
1:17.8	I'm David Frum, a staff writer at the Atlantic.
1:20.8	My guest this week will be Charles Moore, the authorized biographer of Margaret Thatcher,
1:24.6	and we'll be discussing the life of British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher in this her 100th anniversary birthday month. At the end of the conversation in the final
1:32.6	segment of the show, I'll discuss the book The World of Yesterday by the Austrian-Jewish writer
1:37.1	Stefan Zvig. Before beginning either of these segments, however, I want to open with some thoughts
1:42.4	about events in Washington at the moment, the government shutdown that began on the 1st of October. I record this episode on the
	...

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