What would make minimalism occult? The reason I asked this question is because I could see how it could very easily become occult. Ryan and I had the desire to turn it into occult. We could do a benevolent version of nexium.

There are certainly the roots in mysticism and Buddhism and simple living and minimalist art and architecture sort of all sort of combined together to make this thing.

We've had millions of people see our Netflix films and so we have this ability to attract a certain number of people.

But I think the biggest difference for me and the reason it couldn't be a cult for us, not that it couldn't be for others, is I don't want to be with groups of people.

I am like the most sort of introverted. The only people I hang out with regularly are my wife, my daughter, and my best friend here.

And then the group of people that's in this room or the other people on our team like Jess or Emma's not here today.

But like I spend more time with the people I work directly with. But even then I feel like, I don't want power over them.

By the way, he still doesn't like any of us. He loves us though. But is it funny though that in the age of the internet so many cults can form without the cult leaders consent?

Oh yeah.

Because they're like parasocial. I think of celebrity stands. There are really zealous fan cults that form around certain celebrities and public figures that the celebrity themselves has almost like a toxicity.

Almost like a toxic relationship with or is like, oh, you're acting too radical. I wish you wouldn't cause drama in my life this way. Or maybe the relationship, you know, they aren't controlling that group.

They're like a monster that's they've that they've built themselves because people seek community and tribes. So fundamentally that, you know, you can have this totally parasocial cult.

I also think of, you know, certain people on social media who maybe never imagined they would blow up and, you know, have a social media quote unquote cult of their own. And it sort of, you know, metastasizes without them intentionally creating that, you know.

So, so if I look at the characteristics of minimalism, it would turn into a cult. If we wanted to wield power over people, I think that's the first thing that I can give a few reasons.

I've been thinking about this. Well, I think it would be very cultish of you to, and this is totally antithetical to how you to operate.

But if you instantly created this really severe us versus them dichotomy, like you cannot casually participate in minimalism. If you don't do XYZ, you're not a minimalist, you're not one of us, you're an enemy.

Right. Right. And I've been thinking about minimalism, sort of comparing it in my mind to veganism.

Yeah. Yeah. Like I was, I was vegan for a long time. I still eat, you know, mostly plant-based, but whatever. I'm maybe like 80% vegan. And I got into veganism.

The vegans hate when you say something like that. I know. I know. It is quite cultish. And I hate to say that, and I'll talk about that in a second.

But I initially got into veganism because I was inspired by the vegan YouTube community. And this was during a time when high-carb low-fat veganism was very trendy.

It was like a lot of fruterians and people who, you know, treated like healthy fats and oils, like they were the devil. And if you weren't, like, and of course no one alive is 100% vegan.

Like never encounters something that doesn't use an animal product. It's like almost impossible. Right. Even your fruit has bugs in it.

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