Welcome to the Dispatch Podcast. I'm Jamie Weinstein. My guest today is Professor Elliot Cone.

Elliot is the author of several books including Supreme Command and most recently The Hollow

Crown, Shakespeare on How Leaders how leaders rise rule and fall.

He is the founding creator of the Strategic Studies Program at John Hopkins's SACE and served as

the school's ninth dean. He also has advised the

Department of State and the Department of Defense. He is currently the

Arley A Burke chair in strategy at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

The reason I invited him on this week is because he wrote a piece in the Atlantic where he

is a contributing writer titled, a foreign policy catastrophe. We get into that column and a column that he wrote a year

ago for Joe Biden to step down among other issues. I think you're going to find it interesting and I hope you

enjoy it as always. So without further ado do I give you Professor Elliot Cone, welcome to the dispatch podcast. It's good to be with you.

I hope I can still call you professor.

I know that from your articles you are leaving academia,

but I will continue to call you professor in this podcast, but I wanted to have you on after reading a

recent Atlantic piece that you wrote, your most recent one in the Atlantic, entitled

cancel the foreign policy and then you

articulated something that I have been thinking

in a much better way that I could put it on paper,

both foreign policy and then we'll lewd,

we'll get to it later, slightly

on what maybe the downsides

domestically might be but you write in the article as hard as I find to admit it is

...