What We Talk About When We Talk About Algorithms

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4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 7 July 2022

⏱️ 66 minutes

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Summary

Algorithms! We hear a lot about them. They drive social media platforms and, according to popular understanding, are responsible for a great deal of what’s wrong about the internet today—and maybe the downfall of democracy itself. But … what exactly are algorithms? And, given they’re not going away, what should they be designed to do?

Evelyn Douek and Quinta Jurecic spoke with Jonathan Stray, a senior scientist at the Berkeley Center for Human-Compatible AI and someone who has thought a lot about what we mean when we say the word “algorithm”—and also when we discuss things like “engagement” and “amplification.” He helped them pin down a more precise understanding of what those terms mean and why that precision is so important in crafting good technology policy. They also talked about what role social media algorithms do and don’t play in stoking political polarization, and how they might be designed to decrease polarization instead.

If you’re interested, you can read the Senate testimony by Dean Eckles on algorithms that Jonathan mentions during the show.
We also mentioned this article by Daniel Kreiss on polarization.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising to access an ad-free version of the LawFair
0:07.2	podcast become a material supporter of LawFair at patreon.com slash LawFair.
0:14.7	That's patreon.com slash LawFair.
0:18.2	Also, check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, LawFair
0:25.6	no bull and the aftermath.
0:55.6	Go to www.mesuyombloodlive.com
1:07.6	What types of engagement are good and what types of engagement are bad?
1:11.2	I normally try to answer that question by thinking about who is it producing value for and
1:16.2	how is that value distributed.
1:18.4	And it's very easy to make the argument that simply giving people more of what will
1:23.7	capture their attention is or can be bad for them.
1:27.7	So I think as people started to realize that in the last five to seven years, they're
1:34.9	developed this critique around the term and I agree with the critique.
1:39.1	I just think that if you sort of take that critique to its logical conclusion, it's
1:44.8	well, you know, we shouldn't try to have engagement.
1:47.7	Well, a platform with no engagement produces zero value.
1:51.5	So that's not the answer.
1:54.8	I'm Quinta Jurassic and this is the LawFair podcast July 7, 2022.
2:01.1	Algorithms, we hear a lot about them.
2:03.7	They drive social media platforms and according to some popular understandings are responsible
2:08.8	for a great deal of what's wrong about the internet today and maybe the downfall of
2:13.0	democracy itself.
	...

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