Do you want to have a real conversation about COVID? Do you want to have a real conversation about how it started and what it was like in this country?

And what was the real basis for a lot of the decisions and determinations that were made by the Trump administration

and then by the Biden administration.

If you want to have a real conversation, you got to talk to somebody who lived it in a position of decision making at that time, who has a clinical

understanding and a pedigree to put those situations in the context. You got to check all those

boxes. I have that person for you. Dr.

Ashish Jaa was a White House COVID coordinator during the Biden administration, but I was

talking to him way before that. Look, I think a reason he got that

position. He was at Brown University. He's a very esteemed professional, obviously. But we had him

on TV all the time and others did too, but you know we were early because he was reasonable and open to the unknown.

Now that has become a precious commodity when you talk about COVID.

People are absolutists, as Dr. Jai is going to argue to you when you listen to this interview.

You can't make vaccines, COVID protocols, partisan.

One, both parties were responsible,

but also once you do that, you go down a scary road.

The reality that without question, look, you can believe what you want, but the data

is not going to back you up.

People who are not vaccinated died more from COVID than people who were vaccinated.

I know morbidity is tricky. I know died from is different than died with. I know. Then look at hospitalizations.

Hospitalizations after the COVID vaccine was introduced and had some penetration

into societies, the hospitals, the numbers were all lopsided with

unvaccinated people having more serious illness. It's not right that there's such a thing as red COVID, that Republicans paid a price for being

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