Hello and welcome to the GZero World Podcast. This is where you can find extended conversations

from my show on public television. I'm Ian Bremmer, and I'm coming to you from Davos, Switzerland,

where world leaders, business executives, and diplomats, and sometimes they're all the same thing,

gathered for the annual World Economic Forum. Just days after President Trump was sworn

in for a second term, the mood hereby turns a bullion and despondent. It's pragmatism. As Trump made

clear in his virtual speech to the forum, Europe can no longer rely on the kind of trusted

relationship with the United States that it has enjoyed since World War II,

or even during Trump's first term.

So what does that mean for Europe and for the war in Ukraine?

I'll discuss all that and more with my guest today, Finland's president, Alexander Stubb.

Let's get to it.

Thank you. President Alexander Stubb. Let's get to it. Alex Stubb, my friend, good to see you back on GZero.

Nice to be here.

I get the sense, tell me if I'm wrong, that over the last couple months, the Europeans have had some success in nudging President Trump, now President Trump, in a more comfortable direction for them

for you on the Russia-Ukraine issue. Is that true? Yeah, I think I'm carefully optimistic

about the direction which we're going through the conversations I've had here in Davos and, of course,

that we've had with the Trump administration. I think he's messaging to Putin is the correct one. He wants to win this piece and I think that's a very important message.

Trump is going to be solid on this one. He's looking for a deal and we of course hope that the deal

and I'm sure the deal will be good for Ukraine. Lots of different pieces of this. One is the fact

that the Ukrainians need more leverage than they have presently to enter negotiations well. What do you think that leverage looks like practically?

Well, I look at it as a linear strategy where you have short term, medium term, and long term. Short term, we need to continue military support, financial support, and political support. And I'm optimistic that continues, both from the U.S. and from Europe.

Then in the sort of short to medium term, say three to six months,

...