We are back. My guest is Pat McCrory. Many of you may remember him as the former Republican

governor of North Carolina. He's been the mayor of Charlotte. He's got his own TV show on PBS

in North Carolina.

He, of course, is somebody I made a frequent participant in the Meet the Press roundtable back in the day.

And because what I love about Pat is he doesn't fit neatly into your left-right paradigms,

which, of course, is good for people like me and bad for professional politicians.

I think you caught a lot of heat, I hear, by having me on beat the press because I Well, I got heat left and right, right?

The left and right said he's not a real conservative.

What are you doing?

Right?

And that's that's the problem, right?

You're not allowed.

You know, it's this has been and this has been the most liberating experience since then,

is that there's this entire ecosystem of people in the political sphere, some in media,

some in, who are practitioners, who don't want to feel as if they have to pick well I'm uncomfortable

I'm okay with these four things over here and I'm okay with these three things over here

but don't force me into one side or the other and I do think one of the reasons why

traditional media I think one of the reasons why traditional media feels like it is that it's, that it's at an inflection point.

I don't want to say it's at an end.

I think we're about to have a new type of media.

But I think that's what has frustrated so many consumers of whatever you want to call it, mainstream media or traditional media, was that

everything is black and white, or excuse me, red and blue. Is that your experience?

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