Hello and I'm just in Baldoni and I'm here with one of my best friends in the world,

Jamie Heath, and the incredible Elizabeth Plank, also known by Liz Plank, who wrote this beautiful book for the love of men.

And we're here to talk about masculinity and this invisible force that for many men governs our actions and yet we have no clue it even exists.

Man enough in general has been a phrase that's been used, I believe, to like hold men back. It's been used almost as an oppressive phrase by men to

men and I think all of us men to a certain extent whether we're conscious of it or not are always thinking

about whether or not we're man enough. I think it permeates everything in our lives

our relationships, our work, our friendships, and I wanted to reclaim that phrase to ask if

we could be man enough to do the hard work of heart work of being willing to sit at the table even though

it's uncomfortable and listen to feedback when it hurts and shut up and listen and then

see if we can turn that listening and hearing into action.

So basically, masculinity affects everything and yet we don't ever talk about it.

There we go.

Liz Plank wrote an amazing book that inspired me in my writing of my book.

We became friends thanks to social media.

Can you tell us a little bit about what your book is about?

I am Liz Plank.

I wrote a book called for the love of men from toxic to a more mindful

of masculinity. Which I'm holding up right now. Yes you are and our books are color coordinated for people who are at home. They both have this

beautiful shade of yellow golden light which is I think the thing that unites both of our books, which is really trying

to create a guide for men to unlearn a lot of the messy stuff that comes with growing up as a boy growing up as a man in our

society and how it intermingles with growing up as a woman and a girl in a society

and how we can all come together, right, in this beautiful project of gender equality and

...