I'm Brian Lehrer. This is my daily politics podcast from WNYC Studios. It's Tuesday, April 20th.

As the jury deliberates in the Derek Chauvin trial, let's look at what's likely going on in the jury room with an eye

not just on yesterday's closing arguments, which of course have gotten a lot of media play,

but also the makeup of the jury and the judge's instructions to the jury, which don't get much

media play, but which WNYC legal editor and race and justice editor Jamie Floyd says could be crucial to the outcome.

With us now is WNYC legal editor and race and justice editor, Jamie Floyd,

who has covered trials for more than 25 years and participated in them as an attorney before that.

Behind the scenes here, Jamie has circulated an explainer on various

aspects of the trial that we all found extremely illuminating, so we'll use that as somewhat

of a guide to looking at the state of the case at this moment. Hey, Jamie, welcome back to the show.

Good morning, Brian. And let's talk about the judge's instructions. I'll play a clip in a

minute from Judge Peter Cahill's instructions as broadcast on TV yesterday. But in general,

why do you say judge's instructions, which we might think of as generally neutral, could affect the

outcome? It's often the most boring part of the trial, Brian. There's no neutral could affect the outcome.

It's often the most boring part of the trial, Brian.

There's no witness sobbing on the witness stand.

The judge is generally reading from an instructions manual.

In this case, Judge Cahill, I believe, read from his own instructions,

largely written by himself, which made it a little more interesting. And he was very efficient. 20 minutes before the closing arguments and another

eight minutes thereafter, a really illuminating way to do it. So the jurors could lean into what the

judge had told them to listen for in the closing arguments. Quite a smart way to do it so the jurors could lean into what the judge had told them to listen for

in the closing arguments. Quite a smart way to do it. Here's why it matters, Brian. The instructions

...