What's Trump's tariff hokey cokey all about?

The Briefing Room

BBC

News, News Commentary

4.8 • 731 Ratings

🗓️ 10 April 2025

⏱️ 29 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Rarely has it been so difficult to see the wood for the trees. The trees being Donald Trump’s new tariffs announced on what he called Liberation Day and which took effect this week, plus the immediate responses to them. And the wood being the economic strategy that lies behind it all. That strategy seems to evolve on a daily basis. Having vowed to ‘stay the course’ on tariffs earlier this week, yesterday saw Trump issue a change that ‘came from the heart’ - that change being a 90 day pause for everyone except China. It’s hard to keep up with the plot changes and in this programme we’re not going to try. Instead we’re going to step back and explore the origin’s of Trump’s love of tariffs, find out what history tells us about their effectiveness and we’ll ask whether Trump does actually have a grand plan. If he does, what is it and can it succeed?

Guests:

Douglas Irwin, professor of economics at Dartmouth College in New Hampshire Meredith Crowley, Professor of Economics the University of Cambridge Duncan Weldon, economist and author of "Two Hundred Years of Muddling Through" Mehreen Khan, economics editor of The Times

Presenter: David Aaronovitch Producers: Ben Carter, Kirsteen Knight and Beth Ashmead Latham Sound engineers: James Beard Production Coordinator: Katie Morrison Editor: Richard Vadon

Transcript

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0:00.0	BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, podcasts.
0:08.1	You put your tariff in, you put your tariff out.
0:11.8	In, out, in out.
0:13.8	You change it all about.
0:15.3	You plan to tax pharmaceuticals and then you turn around.
0:18.7	What on earth is it all about?
0:21.4	The Trump hokey-cokey has caused havoc in the markets,
0:24.3	but behind it all, behind the day-by-day dramas,
0:28.4	is there a coherent plan to alter the terms of world trade
0:32.3	and the position of the dollar as the world's reserve currency?
0:36.9	Step inside the briefing room and together we'll find out.
0:44.1	First, a history lesson. The briefing room's Ben Carter spoke to Douglas Irwin, professor of
0:49.6	economics at Dartmouth College in New Hampshire.
1:00.6	Throughout his political career, Donald Trump hasn't had many kind words for his predecessors and rivals.
1:01.9	Sleepy Joe Biden?
1:03.8	Quote, Cheaton Obama.
1:06.2	Crooked Hillary, she is a crooked one.
1:09.6	These are just a few he's criticized over the years.
1:13.6	But if you listen to Trump's second inauguration speech in January, you might have been surprised to hear him waxing lyrical about one former president.
1:18.6	We will restore the name of a great president, William McKinley, to Mount McKinley, where it should be and where it belongs. President McKinley to Mount McKinley where it should be and where it belongs. President McKinley
1:31.5	made our country very rich through tariffs and through talent. He was a natural businessman.
1:39.6	William McKinley was a Republican politician from the state of Ohio, and he represented Ohio in the House
	...

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