What’s the Skinny on Laws that Make Salaries Public?

Optimist Economy

Kathryn Anne Edwards and Robin Rauzi

Public Policy, Economics, Government, Economy

4.9 • 829 Ratings

🗓️ 10 December 2025

⏱️ 16 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Listener Max did his grad thesis on pay transparency laws in Colorado and found that they narrowed the gender wage gap by 8 cents on the dollar. But some big-name economists reported that such laws can actually reduce wages. So what’s the deal? Kathryn’s answer during our October Q&A was so overlong and multipart that we jokingly called it, “The Max Show.” So here it is, as a mini-episode.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Hey, Optimists, this is Robin. You all seem to love our Thanksgiving prep episodes,
0:09.3	so we have another smaller treat to tide you over until season two drops in late January.
0:25.5	So this one's an outtake from our third Q&A, which we did in October.
0:32.4	You know, as sometimes happens on our show, Catherine's answer to this question kind of went on and on and on.
0:36.2	So in the end, we wound up cutting this whole thing from that episode.
0:37.5	But there were some really interesting economic issues here. So I reached out to Max, who's the guy who asked the question,
0:42.6	which is about laws that require pay transparency. And he agreed to let us use it here. So thanks,
0:48.3	Max. So before this starts, I need to issue two sort of corrections. This is kind of like retcon in advance.
0:56.1	I guess that makes it not retroactive. It makes it like proactive continuity. So anyway, there's
1:01.0	two things. First is you'll hear Catherine say that she is quite sure, quite quite sure that Max was
1:06.8	a student in her poverty class at the University of Maryland. I checked that with Max,
1:11.5	and it turns out he was not her student. So Catherine's batting average on recognizing former
1:16.5	students, zero. Second, there's a reference to a law in Wisconsin that eliminated collective
1:23.1	bargaining for public sector employees. That law was signed in 2011, not 2010, as Catherine says.
1:30.4	Normally, we would re-record that and have Sophie fix it in post, but Catherine, as you know,
1:35.1	is on family leave with her new baby. So you're going to get the raw slightly off by a year version.
1:41.2	One last thing. If you want any optimist Economy gear before Christmas, be sure to
1:45.8	order it by December 15th. I can tell you that the hat with our embroidered logo has been a big
1:50.6	hit with our team. That's it. From everyone here at Optimist Economy, we hope you have a wonderful
1:55.4	holiday season. Enjoy our little mini show, which we call The Max Show.
2:05.3	This is from Max Tehera in Arlington, Virginia.
2:11.9	I don't know how many there are, but I'm in the upper 90s of confidence that Max was a student in my poverty class in Maryland.
	...

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