Hello, welcome to How to win 2024. It's Thursday, March 28th. I'm Jennifer Palmary and I'm here with my co-host Claire. Hi Claire. Hey Jen, this is kind of a

special day. I'm excited about this. So I'm super excited about this because I like to go a little deeper on history than we're able to do in the podcast normally or on MSNBC in a short segment. So we're going to do a little something different today. We talk

a lot about the future and what democracy will look like in the wake of November's

elections, but sometimes looking at the past can help us better understand the stakes, after all, those that

fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Okay, that was Churchill, but our historian would probably say, Claire, that was originally

from the Spanish philosopher George Santayana in

1905 so I want to get that in there so that I don't have to be corrected right

away by our wonderful guests. You would never be corrected by me, Claire, anything you say

I'm just a bobblehead. There you go. That's not true, but we wanted to do some

historical context today not only to what Trump has done to erode our democratic institutions and our trust in the rule of law and the very concept of America,

but how history will judge what is going on in our country right now.

And who better to frame that than Michael Bessliss?

He's the author of nine books on the presidency, including presidential courage,

president of war, and at the highest levels.

And he is NBC's very own presidential historian.

We are thrilled to have you.

Welcome, Michael.

Love to be with both of you. Love everything you do. Everyone should listen to the

podcast. Thank you very much. So let's start out with highlighting some of the

ways that guests on panels at the same time that sometimes the norms are being broken so

frequently that we get numb to how different Donald Trump was as a

...