This is the Athletic Football Show.

Welcome, the Athletic Football Show.

Today's Thursday, October 14th.

I'm Robert Mays. Great show for you guys today. Our Chiefs writer at the Athletic Nate Taylor is going to be joining us a little bit later for our weekly team visit. Kind of a different conversation with Nate about the Chiefs, a two and three Chiefs team that is very rarely headed in this direction. So great to get some contacts from Nate. Really appreciated his time. Before we get to that, though, I am pleased to welcome my good friend,

Lizzie Jones. Lindsay, how you doing? I'm great, Robert. Looking forward to the show and to talking

to Nate later. You guys know that AFC West Talk is my favorite thing in the world. So right up your alley,

right up your alley. So we're going to start today's show, the only place we. Right up your alley. Right up your alley.

So we're going to start today's show, the only place we can start today's show.

And that is with the John Gruden resignation and the John Gruden news and everything that's kind of come down over the last few days. We had Vic and Tashan on the show earlier this week to really dig into more of the Raiders-specific elements of this story, where the Raiders go from here, the pursuit of John Gruden, period, their leadership group there, kind of the vacuum of leadership there.

If you want to hear more about the Raiders aspect of this, I would encourage you guys to go check out the show that we did earlier this week.

I want to talk to you about the John Gruden specifics, but also kind of about the wider

ranging implications of this. So just, Lindsay, initially, your reaction when you saw the emails

and that ultimately his resignation from being the head coach of the writers. Yeah, sure. I mean,

I've tweeted a lot of my thoughts. I've had a lot of thoughts and feelings about it so you can

make sure you go back and check my Twitter feed since Monday night. I was actually filling in as the Girl Scout troop leader on Monday night when the New York Times story dropped. I'll say it was probably not the best timing to be an NFL reporter being out on a nature walk in the dark, but it was also kind of freeing to like or maybe the best time. Yeah, I know.

One of our coworkers is like, you just got to fast forward right to the end of it. By the time Girl Scouts was over, he had resigned. But so, yeah, I mean, I have had a lot of kind of thoughts and personal feelings. And, you know, I think the initial feeling was frustration. Not surprise. I absolutely was not surprised. And that's not because I've known John Gruden to be a misogynist or a racist. It's just because this is the culture of football. Probably other

professional sports, I can only speak specifically to football. We hear guys talk like this in private

when they think that people aren't, you know, when they don't have a camera on them or they are not on the record.

It's why we, you know, as a female leader in the sports NFL writer space, it's something we talk about a lot that this is how men behave in this kind of this world.

It very much still is an old boy, you know, the old boys club.

And that's where the frustration came from is that no matter, you know, what sort of signs

of progress we see when we see the NFL, you know, proudly talking about the advancement

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