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Hello and welcome to the Americano podcast, a series of discussions about American power, politics and society.

On each episode, I will talk to an American expert or an expert on America

about something that's going on in America in 2023. I'm delighted to be joined today again,

once again by Roger Kimball, who is the editor of the New Criterion and a columnist for the Spectator's World Edition.

And we're going to be asking what is going on within the Republican Party.

Roger, as probably everybody knows, even in Britain, this story made some waves.

Kevin McCarthy was ousted as Speaker of the House this week in a dramatic move

led by Matt Gates, who is an intriguing figure all by himself. And the common perception is that

the party is a mess. This shows how fractious they are, how unable to oppose Biden or the Biden agenda they are.

Do you agree with that perception?

Well, Freddie, I think there are two different points of view that are simultaneously both true and in conflict with each other on this issue.

This would never happen were the roles reversed.

Were it a matter of the Democrats having a slim majority and opposing an administration they disliked in the White House. Never would have happened.

Nancy Pelosi ran the Democratic Party with an iron hand. She managed to keep everybody on message

all the time forever. So from that point of view, if your idea of success is that kind of stability,

that kind of discipline, that kind of order, then I'd have to agree. the Republican Party is a mess.

On the other hand, I think that Matt Gates was probably right

when responding to charges that he had ripped the scab off the Republican Party

and revealed the chaos that lay underneath.

...