In one of the most interesting conversations we've ever had on the podcast, Forrest is joined by clinical psychologist Dr. Jacob Ham to explore what really helps people work with - and be with - trauma. They begin with Dr. Ham's background and what drew him to trauma work before Forrest asks him how he "conceptualizes" different kinds of traumatic experiences. Dr. Ham then takes them away from the conceptual, and toward the felt.  They talk about cultivating a felt sense of connection, empathy as a way in to relationship, and the value of anger. Dr. Ham shares about his own process taking risks as a clinician, using parts work, moving away from the "false idol" of cognizing, and finding a unique way in for each individual. About our Guest: Dr. Jacob Ham is a clinical psychologist, Associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at Mount Sinai, and the Director of the Center for Complex Trauma. He was the therapist former podcast guest Stephanie Foo wrote about in her wonderful book What My Bones Know. You can watch this episode on YouTube. Key Topics: 0:00: Introduction 2:30: Jacob’s background 5:20: Cultivating a felt sense of connection vs. idolizing the concept of trauma 11:00: A monastic, medical, and artistic approach 13:00: Knowing our intentions, and feeling others’ pain as a therapist 18:00: Surrendering to overwhelming grief 23:50: Love, vulnerability, and authenticity 29:45: The value of anger, the energy it demands, and navigating it with humility 34:45: Presence, and taking risks as a clinician 40:40: How Jacob does parts work, and finding what works with each individual 46:15: Staring at the finger that’s pointing at the moon 49:25: Does a good therapist need to have experienced trauma? 52:30: Honoring our inner protectors, surrendering to pain, and knowing it won’t last forever 56:20: Shaping others’ ability to help you, and processing trauma without professional help 1:00:15: Tipping points and surrender 1:04:15: Recap Support the Podcast: We're now on Patreon! If you'd like to support the podcast, follow this link. Sponsors: Start speaking a new language in just 3 weeks with Babbel! Get 55% off at Babbel.com/BEING. Zocdoc helps you find expert doctors and medical professionals that specialize in the care you need, and deliver the type of experience you want. Head to zocdoc.com/being and download the Zocdoc app for FREE. Factor delivers fresh, never-frozen, fully prepared meals right to your door. Head to factormeals.com/beingwell50 and use code beingwell50 to get 50% off.  Join over a million people using BetterHelp, the world’s largest online counseling platform. Visit betterhelp.com/beingwell for 10% off your first month! Want to sleep better? Try the Calm app! Visit calm.com/beingwell for 40% off a premium subscription. Finally get that project off the ground with Squarespace! Head to squarespace.com/beingwell for a free trial, and when you’re ready to launch use coupon code BEINGWELL to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Connect with the show: Subscribe on iTunes Follow Forrest on YouTube Follow us on Instagram Follow Forrest on Instagram Follow Rick on Facebook Follow Forrest on Facebook Visit Forrest's website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices