I'm Alan Alder and this is Clear and Vivid, conversations about connecting and communicating.

But I actually think that poker has made me much better at relationships because you

start learning to really pay attention to people, to what they're telling you, but also

what they're not telling you, but what their bodies are telling you.

You start really learning to read the nuances of other human beings because in poker you

make more money if you do it accurately.

But in real life, I think it makes you a better friend, a better listener, a better conversationalist.

Now it's not a money advantage, it's an emotional advantage that you're actually able to be

more empathetic.

You're actually able to see things from other people's point of view in a much better way.

That's Maria Kanakova.

She combined the advice of two of her scientific heroes, a game theorist and a psychologist,

added some coaching from a poker maven, and became a poker champion.

Along the way she wrote a book, The Biggest Bluff, and it changed her life.

Maria, this is so great that you could join me today.

Your story is so interesting.

You have a PhD in psychology.

You're an award-winning writer.

You decide to write a book about chance and how we make decisions.

So you learn how to be a poker player.

How does that work?

It was unexpected to say the least.

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