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What Next | Daily News and Analysis

How to Dodge a Presidential Pardon

What Next | Daily News and Analysis

Slate Podcasts

News, News Commentary, Daily News

4.32.4K Ratings

🗓️ 15 March 2019

⏱️ 16 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

This week, former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort was sentenced to a total of 7½ years in prison. Here’s how his case is one of the best examples of a special counsel making sure that those who did wrong serve the time.

Guest: Jed Shugerman, a professor at Fordham Law.

Tell us what you think by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or sending an email to whatnext@slate.com. Follow us on Instagram for updates on the show.

Podcast production by Mary Wilson, Jayson De Leon, and Anna Martin.


Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Transcript

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0:00.0

Can we talk a little bit about Paul Manafort's week? Like, can you, it's, he's been really busy.

0:10.9

Yes, and prosecutors have been busy too.

0:13.9

Jed Sugarman follows all things Mueller investigation for Slate. I wanted to give him a call because

0:19.0

Paul Manafort had a rough week. He showed up in court

0:22.4

looking pretty frail, gray hair in a wheelchair. Then he got sentenced to prison for crimes like

0:28.3

tax fraud and witness tampering. Manifort did not do what many defendants do do, which is show

0:35.8

contrition and many defendants will write a letter to the court,

0:40.2

where they get a chance with their lawyers to show what they've learned and their shame and

0:45.5

their contrition. And it was remarkable that Manafort did not do that, and Judge Jackson made a point

0:52.6

to show that this is not a sufficient showing

0:54.8

of remorse. So it's interesting. It's like he's presenting a kind of pitiful facade, but he's not

1:01.0

apologizing. That's basically right. To the extent that there have been apologies, it's more

1:07.0

of kind of a wallowing and self-pity more than actually recognizing the damage done.

1:17.6

All you really need to know about Manafort is that he had an opportunity, he had many

1:22.3

opportunities for redemption in the past year, if he had a conscience.

1:28.5

You might remember that Paul Manafort originally had a plea deal with Robert Mueller.

1:33.0

Then he was caught lying, to the FBI, to the grand jury.

1:37.1

And now he's looking at seven and a half years in prison.

1:40.0

I think what you see over this pattern is someone who seems to not have a conscience and seems

1:45.9

to not understand even to be able to fake remorse.

1:50.5

But Jed isn't that interested in Manafort's psychology.

1:53.4

He looks at everything that's happening here as a constitutional scholar.

...

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