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What Next | He Says Gaza Is a Genocide

Slate News

Slate Podcasts

News, News Commentary, Politics

4.66K Ratings

🗓️ 24 July 2025

⏱️ 33 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

What does it change to call Israel’s assault on Gaza a “genocide”? Guest:  Omer Bartov, Dean's Professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies at Brown University and author of the op-ed, “I’m a Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.” Another article mentioned in this episode: “The Need to Forget” by Yehuda Elkana Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

We've done so many shows about how bad things have gotten in Gaza,

0:09.6

that I'm not sure how to tell you that things have gotten worse.

0:14.6

But looking around, that's the unmistakable conclusion.

0:23.5

The basics go like this.

0:25.9

This week, more than 100 aid agencies in human rights groups,

0:29.8

including Doctors Without Borders and Save the Children,

0:32.9

started warning that mass starvation is spreading across the region.

0:39.1

Some of those starving people are reporters.

0:43.1

A photographer for Ajean's France Press told his bosses, he's so hungry he can no longer walk.

0:51.0

And when people show up to claim what little food there is, they risk death.

0:56.7

The UN now estimates that more than 600 people have been killed in the vicinity of AIDS sites.

1:02.7

Many of them were shot.

1:06.5

The images that accompany these stories are relentless.

1:12.1

You know, I've been dealing with images of war in the Holocaust

1:16.7

for all of my professional career, which started in the late 70s.

1:24.6

But I must say, in the last few months, for me, personally, it's become harder

1:31.0

and harder to actually watch the images. Omar Bartoff feels like bearing witness to what's

1:37.0

happening is part of his job. He's Israeli. He's a professor of Holocaust studies at Brown. So he sifts through what he can.

1:48.0

There are images from reporters, posts from everyday people, and then the stuff posted by

1:53.6

Israeli soldiers, some of it outright hateful.

1:58.2

Omer's studied enough conflict that he's not surprised that these images alone aren't changing the way people around the world see Gaza.

2:07.0

Historically, he says, images just can't do that.

...

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