Welcome to Current Affairs. My name is Aether Robinson. I am the editor-in-chief of Current Affairs

Magazine. Returning to the program, today my guest is Adolf Reed, Professor Emeritus of Political Science

at the University of Pennsylvania, the co-host of the Class Matters podcast put out through the Debs-Jones-Douglas

Institute, available at classmatterspodcast.org, and the author of the book, The South, Jim Crow,

and its afterlives available from Verso Idafried. Thank you so much for joining us on Current Affairs.

Oh, hey, Nathan, thanks for having me. It's always my pleasure, and thanks for the plug for the

podcast. Hey, great to talk to you again. This book, when this book came out, and I didn't know

this book was going to come out. I just Verso sent us a copy. I found it. Some of our listeners

may be familiar with your previous work.

I was surprised by it. I was surprised by it for a few reasons, because I've never seen you write

things that are so personal. I've never seen you burn with the fire of indignation at white supremacy the way that you do in this book.

And the other thing about this book that was a little surprising is it has a certain kind of

optimism. You're not necessarily known for your positivity, but there's a kind of positive message

that comes out of this. So this book, to people who know you by your reputation as, what do they call you a class reductionist?

This book will surprise people, I think.

Well, it should.

Yeah.

I mean, it's interesting that because, yeah, like, you know the genesis of the book.

But when the children who handled catalog copy for Verso

sent me a first draft, I freaked out, man. I sent like a flame mail, as they used to be

called, like to everybody I knew of the press, because they were billing it as a combination,

memoir and buildings Roman. And I've been saying from

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