I'm Audie Ignatius.

I'm Alison Beard, and this is the HBR Ideacast.

So, Alison, there is a phenomenon that we see over and over again where founders create companies with a purpose, with a noble mission, maybe it don't be evil motto, and then over time it all gets lost, right?

Short-term financial pressure makes companies cut corners, lose conviction,

and in some cases, the founder-visionary themselves is even forced out.

Yeah, I can think off the top of my head of lots of examples.

You know, Apple, when Steve Jobs wasn't in charge.

Starbucks, when Howard Schultz stepped down before he came back.

Google, which was your don't be evil reference, now Alphabet. And even my

friend's company, a healthy, fast, casual food chain that went downhill because private equity

came in and he left to start another business. So Eric Reese, today's guest, has thought a lot

about all of this. You might know him as the author of the book, The Lean Startup. In recent years,

he has turned his attention to how and why companies lose their way over time. And while he blames a system

that excessively prioritizes short-term shareholders' needs, he also says companies themselves

are somewhat complicit. In other words, there are things they could do to hold on to their

mission and purpose, but they too often are not doing so, and he suggests some alternative paths.

I feel like a few years ago, all the talk was about being mission-driven and stakeholder

capitalism, and it seems to have shifted back to more of a focus on shareholders.

So I'm excited for someone to present a counterpoint.

Yeah, look, you make a good point.

I think the conversation is continuing.

So Rees' new book is incorruptible,

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