This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC studios and the New Yorker.

Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour, I'm David Remnick.

Well, that happened.

As soon as Joe Biden announced his departure from the race,

we asked Jennifer Paul Mary to come on the program

to talk about what this all means for the person who's

almost certainly the new standard bear for the Democrats, Kamala Harris.

Jen Paul Mary is the kind of politico in DC who's been around for half of forever.

She knows where the bones are buried.

When we talk about the Democratic Party establishment, she's right up there, a veteran of the Bill Clinton administration and Barack

Obama's White House and she was the director of communications for Hillary

Clinton's 2016 campaign. Paul Mary now co-host the podcast How to win 2024.

So she can tell us a thing or a two about what exactly is going on in this bizarre and historic race for the White House.

Hey Jen, how are you?

I'm good, how are you?

I don't know anything going on?

Oh my God, oh my God, David. I spoke with Jennifer Paul Mary last week.

First things first things first you know everybody in this drama.

Joe Biden Nancy Pelosi Barack Obama Chuck Schumer the Clintons

Oh my god yeah exactly what happened over last weekend that turned the tide here?

So I think that there is a sense that is not true that Obama played a big role in trying to get President Biden to drop out.

But it does, you know, it plays into an interesting Shakespearean storyline that, you know, between the two of them and the fact that, you know, it is true that President Obama did not think that President Biden should run in 16. He endorsed Hillary. not of President Biden not listening to other people's advice because you know all

...