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Hello and welcome to the Americano podcast, a series of discussions about American politics, power and prejudices. This year, 2024,

is an election year in America, a presidential election year. And so we will be doing two podcasts

a week, rather than our usual one, because we want to and because we know you can't get enough

Americano in your life. I am delighted to be joined by Americano's most regular guest, Jacob Harbin,

who is the author of America Last, which is a new book, which is causing some controversy

in the American literary firmament.

And I'm going to talk to Jacob about an essay he wrote earlier this week called The Real Danger if Trump is Reelected.

And it's about Trump's foreign policy.

And Jacob is, as American listeners will know, editor of the national interest.

And so you follow foreign policy quite closely.

And in fact, as we've discussed before, Donald Trump gave quite an interesting foreign policy

speech at your institute in 2016.

And in this piece you've written for the New York Times, Jacob, you talk about two groups within Trump

world, the restorationists and the revisionist, I think you call them. Is that right? That's correct.

That's correct. And could you just, well, for people who haven't read the piece, I recommend

everyone reads the piece, but for people who haven't, just explain to us that

dynamic. Well, first, I should say the thrust of my piece was to argue that Trump does in fact

have a coherent and predictable foreign policy and that he is often treated in the US media as an

...