I'm Steve Strogatz and this is The Joy of Why, a podcast from Quantum Magazine that takes

you into some of the biggest unanswered questions in math and science today.

In this episode, we're going to be discussing the mystery of consciousness.

The mystery being that when your brain cells fire in certain patterns, it actually feels like something.

It might feel like jealousy or a toothache or the memory of your mother's face or the scent of her

favorite perfume. But other patterns of brain activity don't really feel like anything at all.

Right now, for instance, I'm probably

forming some memories somewhere deep in my brain, but the process of that memory formation

is imperceptible to me. I can't feel it. It doesn't give rise to any sort of internal,

subjective experience at all. In other words, I'm not conscious of it. So how does consciousness

happen? How is it related to physics and biology? Are animals conscious? What about plants?

Or computers, could they ever be conscious? And what is consciousness exactly? My guest today,

Dr. Anil Seth, studies consciousness in his role as the co-director of the Sussex Center for Consciousness Science at the University of Sussex near Brighton, England.

The center brings together all sorts of disciplinary specialists, from neuroscientists to mathematicians to experts in virtual reality, to study

the conscious experience. Dr. Seth is also the author of the book Being You, A New Science of

Consciousness. He joins us from studios in Brighton, England. And thanks for being here.

Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be on with you.

Well, this is, I have to say, one of my favorite and most perplexing things to think about.

I don't really know where to start with it. I mean, consciousness is so mysterious. I sometimes

have this uncanny sensation, maybe like once or twice a year. I'll be looking in the

bathroom mirror, shaving.

And then I get this creepy feeling like, what is this lump of matter looking back at me in the

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