Hello and welcome to rock and roll politics, the twice weekly podcast with me, Steve Richards.

Thank you for tuning in, wherever you are in the UK and indeed the rest of the world.

And the conversation I'm about to have, I've been looking forward to having for a very

long time, for two reasons. Raphael Bear is a brilliant writer. Many of you read his columns. And it's

sort of like, as with the book, it's not like reading music. It has a flair and quality to it.

And so that's one reason I'm looking forward to my conversation with Raphael Bear. The other is this, that as those of you who listen regularly know, one of our themes in our time together is exploring terms.

And one of the terms that recurs in Raf's book, which is politics, a survivor's guide, how to stay engaged without getting enraged, are two themes

we've explored a lot. One is anger and whether we should be angry. And some of you write to me

all the time and say, you're so calm. And I say to all of you, it's an act. I'm not. I'm furious and angry about

lots of things. It is a total act. And the other is Raff explores the centerground versus

populism. And one of our themes in our times together on this podcast is what does that mean

the center ground? What is centristism? So for all these reasons,

I'm thrilled that Raphael Bear has given up the time to join us. Thank you, Raf. Could I begin

on the theme of anger? Because, I mean, you must be fed up talking about this. But on one level,

I think you got into such a state that you went running and had a heart attack.

And I remember really about this when you first wrote about the Guardian.

I couldn't believe it because you're slim and fit and active.

And was it partly?

It's still not entirely clear to me because you said you were a big smoker and, you know,

it's in the family history, heart problems.

But do you attribute part of the heart attack to the anger you were feeling about politics and Brexit at the time?

The short answer, I think, is a bit yes because, obviously, as you say, an underlying genetic predisposition to cardiovascular

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