What is it like to be a woman in prison?

Woman's Hour

BBC

Society & Culture, Health & Fitness, Personal Journals

4.2 • 2.9K Ratings

🗓️ 4 April 2025

⏱️ 58 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

The Justice Secretary Shabana Mahmood believes “prison isn’t working” for women and wants to reduce the number of female prisoners. So what has gone wrong? Nuala McGovern speaks to Scarlett Roberts who is a former prisoner and is now a Churchill Fellow and to former prisoner Jules Rowan, now a personal trainer, who co-hosts the Life After Prison podcast. They are joined by former prisoner officer and former Head of Security and Operations at HMP Wormwood Scrubs Vanessa Frake-Harris, and by prison Intelligence Analyst and author of Five by Five, Claire Wilson. And Lucy Russell, Head of Policy and Public Affairs at the charity Women in Prison, describes the challenges faced by women in prison today.

What can be done to improve the prison system for women? Nuala speaks to justice system reformer Lady Edwina Grosvenor about her pioneering project Hope Street in Southampton, which aims to keep women in criminal justice system out of jail and with their children and to Alex Davies Jones MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State at the Ministry of Justice about the Government's plans to tackle the issue of women's prisons.

Presenter: Nuala McGovern Producer: Laura Northedge

Transcript

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0:00.0	You're about to listen to a BBC podcast, but this is about something else you might enjoy.
0:05.4	My name's Katie Lecky and I'm an assistant commissioner for on demand music on BBC Sounds.
0:10.8	The BBC has an incredible musical heritage and culture and as a music lover, I love being part of that.
0:17.5	With music on sounds, we offer collections and mixes for everything, from workouts
0:21.9	to helping you nod off, boogie in your kitchen, or even just a moment of calm. And they're
0:27.8	all put together by people who know their stuff. So if you want some expertly curated music
0:33.5	in your life, check out BBC Sounds. Hello, this is Neula McGovern and you're listening to
0:39.4	the Woman's Hour podcast. Hello and welcome. This hour, a special program on women in prisons.
0:46.8	Shabana Mahmoud, the Justice Secretary, believes prison isn't working for women. She says it is her
0:52.7	ultimate ambition to cut the number of female prisoners.
0:56.6	But what will that take? And what does it mean for society if women who commit crimes are given
1:01.4	more leniency in the future than they do now? The Labour MP, Alex Davies Jones, will be with us
1:06.9	to explain why the government thinks a different path is essential. We do know there are more
1:12.4	than 3,500 female prisoners in England held across 12 prisons. More than half have children
1:18.5	under the age of 18. We'll talk about the impact on families of imprisonment of women. And we'll
1:24.4	also speak to two former prisoners about what life is like as a woman on the inside
1:28.5	surviving day to day. How did they manage? What did they see? What would they change? Some of the
1:33.9	same questions I'll put to the former head of security and operations at HMP Wormwood Scrubs, who will
1:39.1	join us. We'll hear from Claire Wilson, author and intelligence analyst in a Scottish prison and Lady Edwina
1:46.6	Grovener on what she thinks the future of women's prisons should look like.
1:52.2	So what is it like to be a woman in prison in the UK? Who goes to prison and why? And what's it
1:59.1	like when you're inside? Well, joining me in the studio is Scarlett
	...

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